Thoughts on a Watchmen film…

by alphamonkey on March 6, 2008 · 42 comments

in Comics!

Apparently my diminished sense of being impressed by character stills pissed a couple people off. Because I’m a particularly opinionated nerd, I thought I’d just respond to some of my anonymous detractors (‘u fag, you dont know shit about good movies‘ being a particular favorite nugget of e-mail love received in response) on the front page.

I’ve been reading comics for a long, long time. It’s a wonderful medium for storytelling, and one that has left an indelible mark on my life. And yes… I’ll admit that I wasted many a conversation playing the ‘who should play Wolverine’ game with many a pal in geekery. But the truth of the matter is I learned a long time ago that what works on a 4 color page of cheap newsprint doesn’t always work on the big screen.

Batman, Spider-Man, Superman and the like lend themselves to interpretation because no one author really owns them (Both literally and figuratively). They’ve undergone so many changes over the years, had so many hands and minds dictating their actions that a director can play with the little details and tell their own story, and we’re okay with that. In some cases (Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins) we’re treated to a new take on much beloved characters that actually works, but mostly (X-Men 1-3, Fantastic Four, Punisher) we’re given un-sugar’d Kool-Aid and then told it’s Pinot Noir that comes with its own action figure.

Watchmen, on the other hand, is a work that is wholly defined by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. No other author or artist has ever laid their hands on that cast of characters (at least not officially), so Watchmen exists as a complete and finished work. Can anyone really say that seeing the characters moving on the big screen will somehow be better than what we already have? I don’t believe for a second that you can leave out the Tales of the Black Freighter (already confirmed by Snyder as not being part of the film), the excerpts from ‘Under the Hood’, etc. and still be calling an adaptation ‘Watchmen’.

Most importantly, how can you make a film that can capture the same ground-breaking spirit of the original when so much of Watchmen’s power was based in how it turned comic convention on its ear? Movie going audiences don’t have the familiarity of the Charleston Comics characters that inspired each of Watchmen’s central cast, so that sense of the familiar being turned inside out that made Watchmen so amazing will be completely lost in translation.

I certainly don’t wish Zach Snyder any ill will (though if I think about ‘300’ too long I may have to amend that statement), nor do I want the film to fail per se, but I just can’t call it Watchmen.

Update: Or to put it another way… anything other than the original will leave us nothing but this:

Watchmen Babies

Thanks to Mr. Langosta for the image.

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  • Who Watches the Watchmen Watchers?

    I couldn’t agree with your conclusion more, or your analysis less. The Charleston Comics tie is a nice bonus to reading the book, but wholly unnecessary. The impression of a past is well developed in the book: absolutely no knowledge of the Charleston icons is necessary (I know. All the characters in the Watchmen were new to me when I first read it 20 years ago.)

    There is absolutely no reason why an outstanding film couldn’t be made: one that turns the tired “onscreen superhero” genre on its head. A great filmmaker with a daring studio behind him could.

    Like it or not, 300 was a faithful translation of the work into a new medium. Of course major components of the orginal will not make it to screen, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be adapted for it.

    Lord of the Rings, Wizard of Oz, Blade Runner and many other high-concept classics were forced to make hard choices that fundamentally changed story in order to turn a classic book into a classic motion picture.

    It could be done with Watchmen.

    But you are right: it won’t be.

    Either the director will bow to the pre-existing concept, or (more likely) the studio will shoe-horn it in to a X-men- (Or worse: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen-) sized box.

  • .alphamonkey.

    You really didn’t know Blue Beetle, The Question, or Captain Atom? Man, what comics were you reading?

    Actually, there is a reason why an outstanding film can’t be made out of Watchmen: You remove the supplemental characters, story lines, and back story from Watchmen and all you’re left with is the standard: ‘super-heroes vs. super-villan with twist ending’ storyline with none of the meat and gristle that made it shine in the first place. There’s a reason Terry Gilliam wanted to make it a 12 episode mini-series, ya know. Sometimes too much is lost when you compress it down so far (ie, V for Vendetta).

    300 was indeed a faithful adaptation (with the exception that they added story, not subtracted in the case of the queen vs. senate stuff), but that didn’t make it a good movie. In fact, I thought it was fairly ridiculous and stupid. It was also 9 minutes long if you sped up all the slo-mo. Sin City, which was a flawless translation of Miller’s work was still a pretty shitty movie once you got past the flash.

  • BAD

    300,the movie and the comic, was simply an action/war movie/comic book. I enjoyed both of them on that level and never read any further into them. There simply wasn’t much else to get. I think Frank Miller gets more hype than he deserves. I enjoy his comics, and I can see some people’s points occasionally about his art work, but for the most part he just exploits violence and sexuality with some gritty artwork.

    Now for this movie……….

    It’s blasphemous. Any fan of Alan Moore will tell you that any of his work that is being adapted to anything else is a useless cause. He, smartly, distances himself from such projects.

    Alan Moore is not Frank Miller. Frank Miller was on set for both 300 and Sin City. He relished the attention gave to his works. He ACCEPTED these adaptations,helped create them, and enjoyed them.

    Thankfully Alan Moore will never accept anything based of his work unless it actually makes sense to do it. So far there has been nothing based off his books of any worth to be associated with his name.

    It is a shame that people still use his work anyway.

    PS: I liked From Hell only because it was way different then the book. They should have just called it something else. I am a Johnny Depp fan too. Sorry.

  • Who Watches the Watchmen Watchers?

    Well, condensing Lord of the Rings into three discreet films reduced an Tom Bombadil-laden epic tale into a linear quest film. The Wizard of Oz strips a million really off-beat sidetales from the book, including the ending, in favor of a cinematic story.

    Yes, seriously, I’d never heard of Captain Atom, Blue Beetle or the Question, or had only heard of them vaguely en passant. My knowledge of their archetypes was not critical to an understanding of Moore’s masterpiece, and still isn’t today. His takes on the characters were not derivative but full-fledged, breathing entities. He wrote the book that well. I was in 10th grade when I picked the book up, and most of my comic experience came from Marvel flagships, Dark Knight and old horror comics. Watchmen came out before

    I’m telling you, I could make Watchmen into a worthwhile movie. You probably could too. In claymation. It wouldn’t make it past the gatekeepers, but I’m pretty sure Moore would get a kick out of it. I think the story is rich enough to be translated into new art elsewhere, but there’s no easy money in that, so it won’t happen. Instead, it is commoditized and reduced to X-Men with Irony.

    Think about this: what if they made a non-linear two-hour movie, one that was shot as partial documentary of the events in Watchmen? You don’t think that could add anything to the story? I think there are a lot of ways to make a really special Watchmen movie.

    I think comics nuts think Watchmen is great because of what it says about comics, and therefore will never work in any other medium. I agree that it won’t practically be achieved in another medium, but that, theoretically, a great Watchmen film could be done.

  • Rick

    alphamonkey, I gotta call you out on this one.

    I have no reason to believe that this movie is going to be revolutionary, or even good. But I want to see it. And I think your reservations strike me as simply an effort to protect yourself from getting let down.

    Watchmen is an amazing work of fiction, and I agree that no adaptation is going to improve on the original, whether it’s a Star Wars Special Edition-style update, a rewrite, or a transition to a different medium. It NEVER works, by those standards. If you like the original, you won’t like something else. But that’s not the criteria on which to judge an adaptation. As the first commenter mentioned, Lord of the Rings was a highly entertaining slice-and-dice of the original. Not as epic, or as deep, perhaps. But “meh?” Hardly. If I were as adherent to the original trilogy as you are to Watchmen, and my criteria for success was so insurmountably lofty, I’d feel differently. But you just can’t do that. It’s about finding the spirit of the story, the kernel of what’s interesting and worth telling, and telling it through a different perspective.

    Personally, I think that Watchmen has the potential to be an amazing film. (Again, I’m not getting my hopes up, but I’m willing to wait to find out). Most of the book is comprised of panels of the same size and shape, with naturalistic dialogue, down-to-earth characters, and (comparatively) reasonably realistic situations (with a few notable exceptions). These are all things that are rare in the world of comics, and the downfall of many attempted adaptations. But it makes the process a little easier on a filmmaker, so he can focus on what Moore clearly focused on in Watchmen: the story and the characters. Gibbons’ panels are simple, concrete, and heavily populated with real stuff. Seeing all the thousands of details, people, signage and architecture in a cinematic setting is really exciting to me because it’s actually possible to put all that stuff into a frame without making some big sacrifices or compromises, unlike, say filming the Silver Surfer or the Hulk.

    See, to me, the type of superhero movie I’m kind of nonplussed about is, for instance, Iron Man, which it seems like you’re drooling over. And for what? Does it really have the potential to be any better than Spider-man or X-Men? It will definitely (like the other two) be a pan-demographic, flimsy crowd pleaser. Watchmen looks like it’s trying to be gritty, creepy, and lived-in, and so far it looks like it’s accomplishing its goal. I guess I’m just the type of guy who’d rather get exited about a movie that could be an A+ or a D-, rather than a movie I’m sure will be a solid B.

    Oh, and I think Ozymandius looks just like he should – ridiculous. I approve.

  • .alphamonkey.

    Apparently I’m the grump. I tell you this, though: Were we talking about 12 episode mini-series on HBO (which, by the way, no less than Terry Gilliam said would be the only worthy way to tackle Watchmen), I’d be drooling over this as well. I just can’t imagine compressing this down to 2 hours is going to do it any favors.

    And Iron Man? I’m excited for Iron Man for the same reason I stated above: No one voice owns Tony Stark, therefore there’s so much more room to play with without losing the essence. And let’s face it: Robert Downy, Jr. is some seriously inspired casting.

  • Who Watches the Watchmen Watchers?

    Ahhh! Now I’m suddenly worried that I’ll be disappointed if the Watchmen movie is good and simultaneously concerned that I’ll enjoy it if it sucks.

    I call this fanxiety.

  • Mike T.

    I guess for you comic elitist out there almost every movie made from comic books suck but the reality is that not everyone reads comic books. Comic books aren’t exactly adult noir, if you want that…open a book, a real book, you know their like comic books but without the pictures. Sure you can add sophistication and great story telling to comics but you can also say that a comic book when based on a novel is just dumming it down. A movie is just another medium and unfortunately you can cry and whine about whats in and out of the film but until it comes out its just your basic gaf that everyone is used to hearing. Unfortunately…you really can’t just a movie…by its cover =)

  • Mike T.

    “judge a movie by its cover”…lol

  • .alphamonkey.

    Actually, there are a number of titles running that are exactly that, Mike. Y the Last Man, DMZ, Young Liars, etc. etc. etc. It’s not all tights and capes. In fact, I daresay you’d find a hell of a lot more literary value in those titles and their ilk than in 90% of new fiction released today. But you see, that’s why I don’t mock fiction just because romance novels and crappy paint-by-numbers thrillers dominate the market. I understand that the medium is worthwhile even when individual genres or titles are not. Comics aren’t inherently non-adult, anymore than fiction is inherently more intelligent. I mean, have you read a Michael Crichton novel? D-U-M, dumb.

    I’m certainly no elitist with comics, and there are a number of comic-book movies I’ve quite enjoyed. This case in particular is like finding out someone was going to do a Hollywood treatment for Gravity’s Rainbow, and certainly a grown up, real book reading individual like yourself can find the reasoning with that.

  • Alan


    You are pretty much on the ball, Watchmen is simply too big and pivotal to condense into 2 hours of screen time.

    Also, I can’t see the connection between being a “fag” and knowing “shit about good movies”. Your anonymous critic has obviously confused a person’s sexuality with their ability to objectively expound a point of view on a subject that they feel they have an interest and knowledge in.

  • Andrew DeGolyer

    If you’re expecting a movie, any movie, to be as good as the comic or novel or comic novel that you have already read, you’re bound to be disappointed. It’s never going to have every part you love, or look the way it did in your head while you were reading it.

    That said, Hollywood is long out of ideas and is looking for anything to exploit into a few million dollars. So, once again, don’t expect to be happy with the result. Making a movie that doesn’t represent your experience of a story doesn’t take away from that experience. You still have your Watchmen Comics, your Lord of the Rings trilogy (which were good, but felt rushed…) or whatever other story you love.

    Or you could just learn to make movies (or make a lot of money and pay people to make the for you)

  • Andrew DeGolyer

    OH, and liking or not liking anything besides your same sex doesn’t make you a fag. So, that’s a dumb argument…..

  • RazorFine

    I enjoyed V for Vendetta more than alphamonkey, even with its obvious flaws, but one of my comments coming out to the film was “There is no way they can do a Watchmen movie.” 300 did nothing to make me thing otherwise.

    So far Watchmen has shown me nothing other than the fact it’s been put through Hollywood’s fetish filter (everything has to be black leather, black rubber, or, even better, black leather mixed with black rubber) and will likely be condensed to such an extent to send fanboys into a frenzy.

    As to the Charlton Comics, I’ll admit I didn’t make the connection the first time I read the novel, but understanding the history of those characters does add another level to my appreciation (as learning the story of why an artist painted a particular masterpiece). Is it necessary? No, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t value to the experience.

    I cautiously pessimistic about the film, but I truly hope it proves me wrong.

    (by the way ‘monkey – Sin City RULES!!!!!!!!!!)

  • BAD

    My problem with this is not stemmed from an obsession with comic books, but as a fan of Alan Moore. I simply hate that no one is willing to work with him on his terms. To me, that means that whatever they make, will lack his brilliance.

    What made Watchmen, V For Vendetta, league of Extraordinary Gentlemen, etc, etc so great is his writing. The art has been fabulous too, but (for the most part) he picked the artist he felt was best for the story’s style.

    So for me the problem is lack of creator influence,not translation.

    Also I would like to say that personally, I prefer movies that are a distinct departure from the original medium. Has anyone watched the show Dexter? I love the books, and the show almost equally because they are so different. Both creators in that instance are in harmony, but enhance each others voice with the differences in their styles.

    So if they change Watchmen’s story a lot, i can forget about the similarities and just focus on my enjoyment (or lack of) the movie.

  • Saint Nightwalker

    Wow, you people are astoundingly stupid and un-informed, but that’s par for the course for the Transbuddha website.

    alphamonkey continues his farting and bleating and shrieking about how flantabulous Terry Gilliam is and only he, Terry Gilliam could possibly do justice to Watchmen. This is the same Terry Gilliam who has never brought a movie in under budget in his entire life, yes? The man who went nearly $8,000,000 over budget shooting what was supposed to be a 15-20 minute short for Monty Python’s Meaning Of Life? Gilliam is precisely the wrong person to direct Watchmen. As for BAD’s comment that “no one is willing to work with him on his terms.”

    Why precisely should any Hollywood executive/director/producer work on Moore’s terms. Moore has absolutely no track record, either of success or failure in the movie industry, and in fact has utterly poisoned the well by demanding that his name be completely disassociated from any and all projects that he has written. That is the mark of a galaxy class douche nozzle. ‘Course with Moore we are talking about someone who not only wrote a vile graphic novel advocating child molestation, but admitted to practicing said molestation as “research for the book.” I am talking of course about Lost Girls.

    The thing that annoys me more then just about anything is that mookish douches like alphamonkey and Who Watches the Watchmen Watchers is that clearly none of you have the first fucking clue about what it means when an adoptation of something, be it a novel, an album, a painting a comic book or a tv show is made for the big screen. An adoptation means that things will be changed and left out or added. That’s the way life is. The fatc that you fanboy spaz jizzguzzing dorkoids can’t understand that is beyond me. You seriously can’t be that fucking stupid and ignorant and be able to even semi-accurately type shit on a keyboard and onto the Internet.

  • .alphamonkey.

    Once again we have to play the tune of ‘if you’re going to argue, at least get your premise right’.

    Please, please, please find the sentence where I state that Terry Gilliam is the only person who could do justice to Watchmen. For fuck’s sake… you’re a gawdamn idiot.

  • Saint Nightwalker

    alphamonkeysaid,”Were we talking about a 12 episode mini-series on HBO (which, by the way, no less then Terry Gilliam who said that not only would he be the only person able to direct it and he also said it would be the only worthy way to tackle Watchmen.”

    As for knowing about the Watchmen characters being based on the Charlton characters, Blue Beetle, Peacemaker, The Question, when the original 12 issue mini-series came out no one outside of the editorial staff of DC Comics and the lucky hundred or so spazzoid dorks who were at the ONE comics convention in the US that Moore attended and talked about the series knew about the connection. No doubt, you alphamonkey trying to rewrite and distort history as usual will claim that you knew about the connections before you even finished reading the first issue. That’s fine, go right ahead. The fact that it’s a completely bullshit lie sure as fuck won’t bother you, it certainly hasn’t before. The connection only became widely known, if you want to call approximately 10,000 people out of a population of some 275,000,000 “widely known” when the Graphiti limited edition hardcover with the bonus features, prizes, treats and other surprises was released in late 1988. I happen to have a copy. I’ll bet all of the money in alphamonkey’s bank account that he, alphamonkey not only doesn’t have a copy, but has never seen one in person, (E-bay or online doesn’t count.)

  • .alphamonkey.

    Jesus, you can’t even cut and paste right:

    “Were we talking about 12 episode mini-series on HBO (which, by the way, no less than Terry Gilliam said would be the only worthy way to tackle Watchmen)”

    Notice what you decided to add to that sentence?

    Alan Moore isn’t so damn clever as to so perfectly hide the fact that Nite Owl and Rorschach were based off of Blue Beetle and The Question. For god’s sake, DC pretty much pointed it out the Question connection themselves in an issue of the Question where HE’S READING WATCHMEN ON A PLANE and commenting on Rorschach. Yah, what a fucking secret of history that was.

    And I’m sorry, but anyone with even a half-assed knowledge of comics could make the connection that Nite Owl was based of Blue Beetle, and considering Legends was running at the same time as Watchmen, it’s not like Beetle was obscure at that moment.

    Oh, and Graphitti’s edition was printed in ’87. And yah, I read it when it came out. Perk of having your best friend work at Clint’s Comics all through high school.

    You just keep digging your dumbass hole deeper and deeper.

  • Saint Nightwalker

    Oh, I completely forgot that The Question was one of the best, nay the best selling comic book of the last 40 years. That must be why it got canceled after less then 70 issues. Or maybe it could be because no one gave a fuck and npo one bought the fucking thing.

    So now you’re claiming that you “read the Graphitti edition when it came out. Perk of having you best friend work at Clint’s Comics all through high school.”

    Wow. That’s proof of absolutely nothing. I especially love the bit where you through in the name of a non-existant comic book shop and even come up with a cutsey-yet-not-dorkoid-spazz name for the place to try (and fail miserably) to make it sound more believable. You never read the Graphitti edition. Shit it’s not like it cost that much money, it was only $75 back in the day. I’m sure you made that much in a couple of weeks of [redacted for lack of originality]

    Sure, you read Watchmen in the individual issues and when it came out in TP you got that, and then when it came out in an Absolute edition last year you even got that. Fine. But quit lying and saying that you’ve actually laid eyes on a copy of the Graphitti edition when it’s quite clear that you haven’t. if you had you’d have posted a picture of yourself next to the fucking thing.

    As for Legends, it came out after Watchmen, you idiot.

  • .alphamonkey.

    Never stated The Question was DC’s mega-hit of the 80s, but it’s not like it was some super secret underground comix that only 4 color illuminati knew about. You lose.

    Legends and Watchmen overlapped. Check the pub dates. You lose.

    Clint’s Comics. You lose.

    And yes, I have photos of me reading every comic I’ve ever held in my hands, especially those which belonged to other people. Where’s your dated and verified pic of your ownership of the same? You know why I don’t care? Because it doesn’t fucking matter. I don’t give a shit whether you own it, bought it second hand, or got it as a gift for blowing the staff of NeilCon 04. It just doesn’t matter, just like your half-assed opinions.

  • Andrew DeGolyer

    Nerd fight!!!

    But seriously, Saint Nightwalker, if you hate it here so much, why do you keep coming here?

  • BAD

    Saint Nightwalker,

    How does your obviously overstated, rude, and aggressive posts make you anything more than a falsely irritated troll looking to piss off some people for your own enjoyment?

    Answer: It doesn’t.

    I don’t see any reason to respond to your words till you learn some civility.

  • Saint Nightwalker

    Awwww, wook at the wittle cwybabies cwying over they’re pwecious comic book. Boo-fucking hoo. You people are beyond pathetic. You give both dorkoid spazzes and spazzoid dorks a bad name.

    As for alphamonkeys bleats and farts and shrieks about the Watchmen being based on the Charleston characters, even a halfway casual glance at Night Owl proves that this is yet another bullshit lie shitted out of alphamonkeys shit encrusted butthole. alphamonkey claims that Night Owl is based on Blue Beetle. That’s funny, but Blue Beetle has super powers that he got from an ancient egyptian scarab and Night owl certainly doesn’t have any super powers, unless you count being impotent. It is quite clear that Moore just ripped off Batman when he did Night Owl, witness the underground lair of Night Owl’s ==The Batcave, the various Owl suits (underwater/arctic/fireproof/etc)==the various Batman suits. I could go on and on exposing yet more of alphamonkeys bullshit and lies but I think and hope my point has been made.

    As for NeilCon ’04, I have this to say:

    1) I have no fucking clue what the fuck that is.

    2) I have NEVER been to any type of convention, be it comic book/furry/sci-fi/porn/etc in my life and never will because that shit is for spazz dorkoids.

  • .alphamonkey.

    Now you’re just being an idiot (I know, hard to distinguish from your previous posts, but there it is). So you own the Graffiti collection, but you don’t think that Nite Owl is directly based off the Ted Kord Blue Beetle, even though the supplemental material itself (including Moore’s original Charleston Comics based pitch to DC) explicitly states that it is so? Pants on fire, what?

    Okay, so you’ve never been to a convention, but you’ve just appropriated the e-mail and handle of the guy who previously owned, huh? And you just happen to have accounts on a number of comic book related forums? Sure thing, guy.

  • Saint Nightwalker

    Who the fuck is neil gaiman and why should I care?

  • .alphamonkey.

    Ha. You so lose.

  • BAD

    You don’t know who Neil Gaiman is? Why do you even post here?

  • .alphamonkey.

    Oh, he does, BAD. Hell, his e-mail addy is, he’s at least using the nick of the man who previously owned before giving it to the author himself, and is mentioned as an attendee of numerous Neil Gaiman related events.

    I mean c’mon, he even corrected my intentional misspelling. Kinda belies the claim a little, eh? Of course, you could also slog through the numerous comic book forums he’s posted on (talking about Neil Gaiman on occasion) to disprove him as well.

    He’s just a lying, shit-filled troll, and a rather inept one at that.

  • Saint Nightwalker

    So, like, I”m like, REALLY confused. What precisely am I supposed to have lied about?

    That you alphamonkey are a snotty eltist who has shitty taste in all things popular culture? Hell, this website is proof of the truth of that.

    That you, alphamonkey are a vile bigoted mooley hater?

    That I am in fact not Saint Nightwalker, but rather someone else? If so, precisely who am I?

    Where are the Snowdens of our yesteryear?

  • .alphamonkey.

    You seem to care an awful lot regarding my opinion in most matters, as is clearly evidenced by your frequent comments. Whether or not my taste in pop culture dovetails with yours is quite frankly beneath my concern. As has been stated prior, why not just go away if it offends you so? Better yet, why don’t you start your own little corner of wonderment so that we might bask in your opinions ? I bet that’d be fun.

    I really enjoy the fact that your default choices are either lie or completely ignore the subject when you’re called on your bullshit. Can’t wait to see that website.

  • BAD

    You know what? I like this guy. He is kinda cute in a way (watch this he’ll probably start calling me fagot!).

    I bet if we push his buttons the right way, we can get him to say certain things. Like I bet you a nickel he will say gay in his next post.

  • Saint Nightwalker

    I’m the one ignoring the subject??! That’s fucking rich. I specifically asked you to precisely and explicity state what exactly I have lied about, along with an explanation of why I had done so. Hardly a difficult thing to do. But instead of stepping up like a man, you just go about your snotty elitist “I think I’m better then you, so I shall ignore your questions” attitude. So, are you going to answer the questions posed to you in my previous post or not?

  • .alphamonkey.

    You really want a list? Ok.

    alphamonkeysaid,”Were we talking about a 12 episode mini-series on HBO (which, by the way, no less then Terry Gilliam who said that not only would he be the only person able to direct it and he also said it would be the only worthy way to tackle Watchmen.”

    That statement is a lie. Let’s go ahead and count that twice (comment #16 and #18) and then bring up the fact that you in no way acknowledged that you were a) wrong and b) couldn’t cut and paste correctly.

    Your stated ignorance of Neil Gaiman (comment 26) is a lie, as your e-mail address attests.

    I have NEVER been to any type of convention, be it comic book/furry/sci-fi/porn/etc in my life and never will because that shit is for spazz dorkoids.

    Sorry, but I’ll count attending a Fiddler’s Green (2004) (aka Neil Gaiman / Sandman convention) or a World Fantasy Convention (2002) as making the aforementioned statement a lie.*

    Do I need to include your false and libelous statements regarding my supposed racism that you’ve brought up on multiple occasions?

    So yes, you’re a liar, and not a particularly good one. All you’ve managed to do here is make yourself look like an idiot (and an exceptionally bad debater), so why not just call it a day?

    *You see, this is what happen when you piss off so many site admins that they start tracking all your online identities and passing them to any new site where one of your aliases pop up. I’m amazed at how much digging some of those other admins have done.

  • BAD

    Awwwww. He didn’t say gay. (Bad owes AM on nickel)

    I bet he’ll say “watch AM Bleat” in the next one for another nickel! Come on S. N. That’s like your catch phrase!

    If you say it all owe you a penny! A shinny one too!

  • Saint Nightwalker

    *Guffaws and points at alphamonkey while shaking head*

    God, you really are a fucking moron.

    You have now claimed without any proof that I am someone named Saint Nightwalker. Let’s be serious, you have to have a truly fucked up set of parents to have them name their kid that. But you also shriek that I, according to you post under some other name(s, which you quite conveniently don’t mention. You apparently think that “troll” is one of my , what’s the word? “internet handles.”

    It’s never occurred to you that i could simply be using someone else’s handle for my own nefarious purposes. Shit, if you had bothered to read even a half dozen of Saint Nightwalkers posts on you’d be able to tell there are at least two different people making them. Although now that I think about, the two styles are remarkably similar. Saint Nightwalker aka Trevor Valle is a snotty, egomaniacal blowhard who thinks that he is “THE SHIT” and the smartest and most intelligent and informed thing to be shitted out of his mothers shit-encrusted butthole onto Og’s green Earth and makes no bones about screeching this fact far and wide for all and sundry to hear.

    That person is not me.

    As I said before I have appropriated Trevor’s “internet handle” for my own semi-nefarious purposes, which including character assassination of the actual Saint Nightwalker (Trevor Valle) and giving him as bad and horrible reputation on the Internet as possible with the hope that it will bleed over into real life.

    You have no idea which of my “internet handles” is an original and which ones I have lifted from other people.


  • .alphamonkey.

    Actually, I did know that, Ben Conover! I’ve known it since I was first given the heads up on your douchebaggery by another site admin. I just wanted to make you, Ben Conover, admit it, and thereby allow you to perfectly illustrate what kind of lying shithead you really are.

    Mission accomplished.

  • BAD

    Real people have enough guts to say what they think without hiding behind stolen identities.

    Anyone over 13 knows that there is no real anonymity on the web. If someone wants to find out who you are bad enough, they will.

    My name is Brad Haskins. I live in New Jersey. I don’t need to hide who I really am.

    The pathetic thing is you go to all that trouble to steal others identities, and yet you do nothing but talk gibberish with them. You make no real point. You’re a waste.

  • Saint Nightwalker

    BAD, or should I call you Brad Haskins, or Sir Icouldgiveafuck? Which do you prefer?

    If, as you bleat and screech, “I don’t need to hide who I really am,” then why do you yourself claim that you don’t need to hide behind a false identity and then prove beyond all doubt that you are lying gutter scum, by instead of using your “real name” (A likely story) of Brad Haskins, you use the moniker of BAD?

    Riddle me that one, you pig fucking hypocrite.

    And alphamonkey, my dear 3 month old prune danish, if you as you claim are so sick and tired of me that you have actually had shit come out of your mouth, why don’t you ban me? With all of your vaunted technical computer programming skills, it should take you no more then 30 seconds and you could still beat off to your collection of infant bukkake snuff porn. I seem to recall you trying something like that a bit earlier, but sadly for you, it was an absolute and pathetic failure, which lines up nicely with your life or complete and utter lack thereof.

  • BAD


    It’s called an internet handle. You’re using one too. The difference is I am using MY handle, where as you’re using SOMEONE ELSE’S handle.

    You make me laugh. Keep it up. Why do you think AM doesn’t ban you? This is fun for us.

  • .alphamonkey.

    While your inability to prop even the half-assed ill-thought out argument you might expect from a drunken morning DJ is tiresome (and not surprisingly still not as entertaining as the same), the fact of the matter is you have no impact on anything. Hell, the kid that drives down the street at 3:30 in the morning blaring My Chemical Romance manages to affect my life with more skill than you.

    Sure, I could ban whatever appropriated e-mail address or handle you’re using on a given day. I could even just ban the whole range of IP addresses from Bowdoin College, the Maine Libraries/Dept. of Education, or Great Works Internet that you tend to use, but frankly I can’t be bothered.

    So you just go on making a fool of yourself with your immature personal attacks and complete inability to recognize when you’ve hung yourself on your own moronic petard. So by all means, keep showcasing the deficiencies of your pathetic and hate filled little mind. Because frankly, I’m pretty sure just being you is its own punishment enough.

  • TheRealSaintNightWalker

    I just have to say (after being alerted well-after the fact to this)… that I’m impressed. Ben’s been after this whole “revenge” thing since we (the community as a whole) axed him from the forums OVER 5 YEARS AGO (shit, maybe more). I wouldn’t worry too much, but thanks for jumping on him guys.

    His “character assassination” plot is full of fail… so I’m not too worried.

    Thanks for the heads-up guys. You know who you are.

    Trevor “Saint NightWalker” Valle
    (…and I helped *organize* Fiddler’s Green btw…)

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